Where were the objectors when this was first mooted?

[Bruce]

This was so predictable; something that is foisted on the population (and they have to pay for it) where the public is not even asked what they think, iks bound to fail.

I find it also predictable that it would be "excused" by claiming that it is all about "safety". I wouldn't have thought that anyone could say this any more with a straight face. I'm amazed that the didn't try to claim "it is for the children", or "you're being racist if you don't like being spied on" or something equally as ludicrous. These last claims make just about as much sense. It, clearly, is ENTIRELY about extortion, nothing else.

Council Spy Car Likened To Nazi Secret Police | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6292158/Wellington-spy-car-likened-to-Nazi-secret-police)
snip
This car is becoming a Gestapo spywagon and it was not its intention.

"I think we have come to the point where we need to temporarily stop the use of this car until the criteria for its use, the training of the operators and the mechanisms for dealing with complaints are properly addressed."

Four councillors have now called for it to be scrapped, and want a review. But Mr Michael said if the spy car was removed, the council would face the risks of reduced safety
snip

Can anyone actually justify this?

"Not its intention" :rolleyes: Seriously, how can you extort money from people and claim it wasn't your "intention" to do so?

"Temporarily stop the use of the car"? :mad:

[Bruce]

Here's a news update that I found (funny, it wasn't on the "front page", but "buried):

Wellington City Council gets smart in spy car review... | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6328012/Council-gets-smart-in-spy-car-review)

Council gets smart in spy car review

(or sneaky council finds a way to retain their dishonesty)

Wellington'st most loathed car will be reined in and reviewed after public outrage.

Wellington Mayor Celia Wade-Brown has ordered a review of the Parkwise spy car after growing pressure for it to be scrapped. It follows a flurry of complaints about unreasonable parking fines and overzealous operators.

The car will be limited to monitoring school zones – its original purpose – while the review is done. snip

Hmmn, "LIMITED TO ...." not "scapped as originally hinted at.

More: "Parking enforcement is essential for the safety of all road users but we also don't want enforcement to unnecessarily impinge on the everyday realities of inner-city road use." Snip

Gee, there's so much wrong with these statements. First "Parking enforcement is essential for the safety of all road users" "Safety"??? Seriously, does anyone really think that "parking extortion" has anyhthing at all, whatsoever, even slightly, to do with "safety". That's one of those silly "buzzwords or "buzzphrases" like "it's for the children", or "it's insulting to the victims to question anything".

Next: "but we also don't want enforcement to unnecessarily impinge on the everyday realities of inner-city road use." "Unnecessarily impinge"???? When is it ever "necessary" to inpinge on everyday realities??

Now here's the REAL reason for the sneaking and lying:

At a cost of $250,000 a year, the modified Toyota Yaris has issued more than 17,000 tickets since it was launched, generating revenue of $900,000.

[Bruce]

Another development on this story.

"Naming and shaming" has long been a weapon that parking wardens us, however, when you deliberately do something so nasty that you are afraid of being identified, you are a very sad person indeed.

Wellington City Council's Spy Car Drivers Shun The... | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6365168/Spy-car-drivers-shun-the-spotlight)

Wellington City Council's spy car camera operators are camera-shy.

Former Wellington resident Ann Reeves went to Wellington District Court yesterday to defend herself against a $60 parking ticket issued by a spy car operator near Parliament Buildings on August 31 last year.
snip

Ms Thessman described the dash camera car operator as a "mobile warden". The citizens of Wellington had no right to know who the "dash camera car" operators were, she said. snip

However, Onslow-Western ward councillor John Morrison disagreed with the "clandestine" approach, saying the council's action in applying for name suppression on behalf of the spy car driver reeked of hypocrisy.

Secrecy and non-transparency (I think they should have added "dishonesty") had become hallmarks of the spy car operation. "Hiding in court in this way after these people have been sneaking around town photographing people clandestinely for the past 18 months is highly hypocritical.

"It is just extraordinary that when somebody legitimately seeks to turn the camera on the spy car operators themselves the council runs off and goes ducking and diving for cover ... This operation is owned by the public and should be publicly accountable."

And the weirdest part: Mr Crosby and Mr Symonds reserved their decision in the case involving Ms Reeves until February 24.

Ms Reeves is defending herself against the $60 ticket for parking on yellow lines in Sydney Street West near Parliament. She told the court she felt intimidated when she was photographed by the spy car driver after giving way to him.

Hmmn, "Reserved" their decision. What's the bet that they don't want any further publicity on this matter? And that if they find Ms Reeves guilty (of something - anything) it will discourage people from seeking any publicity about council dishonesty?

[haden nuff]

mate there's nothing new here.
the only question is weather were gonna keep moaning about councils or stop paying rates and bankrupt the bastards before they bankrupt us.
in christchurch bob parker asked for cool heads to prevail after people died in buildings the council declared safe after the september quakes.
so the public should maintain cool heads over mass murder but be dragged into court over the smallest of parking infringements.
there not worth reasoning with. stop paying your rates. after all any animal dumb enough to repeatedly bite the hand that feeds it is bound to starve to death anyway

[Bruce]

mate there's nothing new here.
the only question is weather were gonna keep moaning about councils or stop paying rates and bankrupt the bastards before they bankrupt us.
in christchurch bob parker asked for cool heads to prevail after people died in buildings the council declared safe after the september quakes.
so the public should maintain cool heads over mass murder but be dragged into court over the smallest of parking infringements.
there not worth reasoning with. stop paying your rates. after all any animal dumb enough to repeatedly bite the hand that feeds it is bound to starve to death anyway

It would be excellent if EVERYBODY stopped "paying" their rates. However, governments and local governments (councils) have a monopoly on the "legal" use of violence to "make people pay". You can imagine how you'd be treated if you went around Wellington entrapping motorists and extorting money from them.

Simply if you stop paying your rates you will have your property "confiscated" (not to use a euphemism -STOLEN or SEIZED) and you will have nowhere to live but still "owe" a fortune in mortgage payments. Try and "starve" the government of money and you will end up in jail.

This will happen if one/ten/a hundred or even thousands of people stopped paying rates. It would take literally a million (about the number of properties in NZ) to make any difference. Councils have the legal power/man power to "pick people off one by one" and prosecute them. There will always be thousands of people out there only too willing to take advantage of the losses suffered by other people and move into their "seized" properties and start paying tribute to councils.

There are also many, many people out there who will be "absolutely delighted" (in the words of someone I recently spoke to about this) to help "strongarm" people out of their houses, who "will not cooperate" with local councils.

Council employees are public servants, and public servants have the "shirking responsibility" mentality, and are in the unique position of never having to be accountable for anything that they do "for their employer" (or their master - and I'm certainly not talking about the "ratepayer" - or rather "rate-extortee). If a private company had declared buildings to be safe in which people later died in the building's collapse, that company would be "dragged through the courts" and totally destroyed financially with their employees losing their jobs (only, if they were lucky) and the CEO would probably be charged with murder.

But no! Not government, "Cave Creek" told us that they can murder people with impunity.

[haden nuff]

i realize all of that, i have stopped paying my rates and my mortgage, i am likely to be made bankrupt. they can squabble over who pays what and to whom. at which time i will stop working at my relatively well paid job and live off my wits as i refuse to live on the dole. they may or may not send me to jail. but like you said its extortion. and i will not accept it any longer. it may be futile, but at least i'm spitting in their face.

[Bruce]

If you go into bankruptcy you cannot be made to pay what you don't have. You have to "live" as well.

If you are not working at your (now) job, why should you have to live on your wits? I can certainly understand and sympathise with anybody who doesn't want to live on "the dole" but you could look at it as an "entitlement" or a way of getting back some of the money that has been extorted from you over the years in tax.

After all, if you don't take "the dole" you could compare it to this scenario:

You arrive home on day to find three burglars with a truck laden with your possessions stolen from your house. One is sitting in the truck "revving" the engine and one is in the passenger's seat. A third burglar is hurrying towards the truck with your wallet, credit cards and some ornaments from the house. He sees you and tosses his burdans on the truck and jumps after them shouting to the driver to "take off". In his hurry, he has dropped your wallet on the driveway.

Would you pick it up? Or toss it into the truck, shouting "you forgot this".

If you do whast you said above, you are letting "them" win and may as well be "tossing it into the truck shouting you forgot this".

Like I said, one person can be "made an example of", it would take many thousands or a million (if there are a million houses in NZ).

[haden nuff]

the way i see it is if i take the dole someone has to support me, the point i wish to make is that i am perfectly capable of supporting myself, my kids should they need it, and contribute a fair amount of tax for the good of the country, left to my own devises. i refuse to support the ever-increasing demands of near useless public servants simply because they can manipulate themselves into positions of power

[haden nuff]

if i was to take the dole i would be no better than the extortionists who feel they are entitled to live off the blood sweat and tears of others

[Bruce]

the way i see it is if i take the dole someone has to support me, the point i wish to make is that i am perfectly capable of supporting myself, my kids should they need it, and contribute a fair amount of tax for the good of the country, left to my own devises. i refuse to support the ever-increasing demands of near useless public servants simply because they can manipulate themselves into positions of power

And: if i was to take the dole i would be no better than the extortionists who feel they are entitled to live off the blood sweat and tears of others
__________________________________________________ ___________

But what about the money you have had taken from you already?

I guess you know the answer to that. It has vanished already, not into the pockets of people who are "down on their luck", but it was taken mainly - and has been spent on - "the ever-increasing demands of near useless public servants simply because they can manipulate themselves into positions of power".

The mentality of the public servant is such that they will always put their own wants and needs first. If they have limited money they will still use it to pay themselves exorbitant "salaries", finance their pet projects, and pay for their "CONTROLFREAKISHNESS", i.e. pay for others (police, parking wardens, other "nasties") to hurt you and ensure that you continue to "PAY".

Then, if there is anything left over, they might magnanimously pay "the dole" to people - making them "jump through hoops" to get it of course so that their lust for power might be satisfied.

If a government is ever short of money (say overnight that the "taxpaying public" suddenly had its numbers "cut in half), the first thing that they would cut would be hospitals, schools, social welfare beneficiaries etc. and NOT the "salaries" of politicians and civil servants or their "pet projects".

[haden nuff]

exactly. this attitude of theirs is going to bankrupt the whole country as it has all but so far bankrupted other countries that is the most likely outcome of their lack of foresight, integrity and common decency. as they drive more and more people to financial despair. any government that does not take control to share the burden of this financial crisis while countries are collapsing all around us are derelict in their duty

[Bruce]

exactly. this attitude of theirs is going to bankrupt the whole country as it has all but so far bankrupted other countries that is the most likely outcome of their lack of foresight, integrity and common decency. as they drive more and more people to financial despair. any government that does not take control to share the burden of this financial crisis while countries are collapsing all around us are derelict in their duty

It is exactly the fact that governments HAVE "taken control" and got themselves into debt, that a problem has occurred. Government bureaucrats have squandered money on frivolities and got themselves into massive debt and somehow managed to convince people that the debt belongs to THE PEOPLE, NOT GOVERNMENT, and this has caused most of the world's financial crises. This is the problem in Greece, they are trying to make the people pay for the mess that the bureaucrats have got themselves into. The "elite" will never "tighten their belts", they still want to live in luxury but they expect the ordinary "man in the street" to "shoulder the entire burdan".

It annoys me to hear someone talk of "our debt" when they mean the GOVERNMENT'S debt. The talk of "every man, woman and child owing money". Does that mean that a new born baby is born into debt?

Government bureaucrats should NEVER have anything to do with business or financial dealings. Government bureaucracies are made up of people too incompetent to work anywhere else, and yet they are trusted with a country's finances?

This is an article you might be interested in:

charles hugh smith-When Debt is More Important Than People, The System Is Evil (http://www.oftwominds.com/blogfeb12/debt-empire-evil2-12.html)

Please read it and let me know what you think.

[haden nuff]

the same outcome, different words, it doesn't matter how its put, it doesn't matter who's at fault, the only thing that matters is what's the solution, if greece did refuse to pay up, which as the article argues is a solution, and the lenders have to suck up a bad call. in my view this would return the world to a simpler existence where you can't spend what you ain't got. the question is how evolved or enlightened has the human race become, can we let this rest an a failed experiment, or is it going to lead to wars and violence in the streets world wide. this going to test governments around the world and they will have to side either with their population. or the money lenders. could be a good thing. hopefuly it will simply dwindle away as people refuse to co operate with what they dont agree with. sometimes the best solution in non life threatening situations is to do nothing.

[Bruce]

I think that the lesson will only be learnt when and if Greece (and others) refuse to pay. It is a drastic lesson but one that is, unfortunately, necessary.

As for "evolved and enlightened the human race has become", you've got to be kidding. The human animal is still as simple as ever. That means, at least, that we would adapt very easily to a "simpler existance".

People really need to learn to live within their means and if they want more, they have to produce more. We cannot afford to support parasites - governments - governments are parasites, unnecessary evils and made up of people who lead artificial existances based on tricking other people in believing that they need "government controls" in order to live. Only when we all realise this, will we learn that we all have to produce in order to live and lending to others in the hope that they will default and we can then "forclose" and take all they have, is not the answer to anything. It is an evil.

[Bruce]

Well this is just vindictive. I guess the lesson here is: How can we expect to get justice when we are going against a government department, from a system that is staffed entirely by government employees. Of course it cannot be impartial.

Going back to the OP: The nasty vindictive council has decided to steal even more money from the woman who drew attention to the "spy car" in the first place, even though she was OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!

Spy Car Fine Still Stands In Court - national | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6474609/Considerate-driver-must-pay-spy-car-fine)

The only thing now is to remember the names: Justice of Peaces Ian Symonds and Eugene Crosby and remember that they have both sold their souls to evil, and what they do is not about justice, but they are merely agents of the state, to carry out the will of the state no matter what! So if you ever come up against them, remember that.

What words come to mind; "vindictive", |"mean spirited", "evil", "dirt dumb", any more?