It is sickening listening to talkback radio and people talking about how they are going to "vote to change things". I thought everybody would realise how we have all been tricked into thinking that we really have been "given" the promised "review" of this absurd system whereby we are forced to pay for 120 useless parasites sitting in parliament being totally loyal to their party and voting "along party lines" at our expense.


There has been a decided lack of publicity about the alleged "referendum" on MMP. The small amount of publicity that was put out claimed that "you will get your say" - yeah, right! "your say" You might get "your say", but it won't be taken any notice of.

Despite what we have been told, this "referendum" is NOT binding on parliament. When "MMP" (inverted commas because what we have is NOT what I, or anyone else for that matter, expected "MMP" to be). We have 120 useless, expensive, "trough feeders" all feeding greedily out of the "public trough", who will never vote to reduce their numbers. After all parasites never voluntarily leave their "hosts", do they? They will all lie, cheat and be incredibly dishonest so as to retain their parasite status.

Here's what the "referendum's" own website has to say about it.

What will happen as a result?
If at least half the voters opt to keep MMP, there will be an independent review of MMP in 2012 to recommend changes that should be made to the way it works. The Electoral Commission will conduct the review. It must include a number of matters that have been decided by Parliament including the thresholds parties must meet to be eligible for a share of list seats, whether voters should be able to change the order of candidates on a party list and whether candidates can stand in both an electorate and on the party list. The size of Parliament and Maori representation will not be reviewed, but the Commission may consider any other aspects of the MMP voting system.

If more than half the voters opt to change the voting system, Parliament will decide if there will be another Referendum in 2014 to choose between MMP and the alternative voting system that gets the most support in the second question in the 2011 Referendum.

Now let's analyse this: Since when has the "electoral commission" been "independent"? That should raise a few red flags.

They're talking about "list seats" - hmmn, "list seats", MMP has list seats, this hardly makes for a "review", it is all assuming that MMP is good, and is TO STAY. Would you say this is a "review" or an affirmation?

Another biggie, or "red flag": "THE SIZE OF PARLIAMENT ...." Isn't that the entire point? Don't people want to change the "size of parliament" , well it looks like YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT. "THE SIZE OF PARLIAMENT WILL NOT BE REVIEWED"!!!! NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTER WANTS, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!

The next thing, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS "PARLIAMENT WILL DECIDE" IF THERE IS TO BE ANOTHER REFERENDUM!

So There! You have been tricked. "Parliament will decide" - NOT YOU!! So don't make the mistake of thinking that you might be listened to, it just aint gonna happen!

I read this to I couldn’t believe it either so they basically saying here tick this but we really don’t give a rats what you think we are going to do whatever the hell we feel like, I can’t help but think this was a Key driven agenda from the few quotes I have seen from Key on the matter with thing such as “MMP is a weird thing” last time I checked Johnny is was call democracy at work.

Yep! They have done a "Helen Clark" (you know? She has left a legacy of "holding referenda and then ignoring the results", and ignoring public opinion - was it 97% or 98% of the population didn't want the "anti-smacking legislation"? But Helen did, so ....) and the PRECEDENT WAS HEREBY SET FOREVER!!!! You know? The "we know better" precedent. There are numerous examples, numerous for parliament (any parliament) to call on and say "they did it, so so can we .."

Actually as it turns out a "majority" of voters wanted MMP to stay anyway (or so we're told happened).

Well you cannot blame me for being cynical. I mean there has been so much lying and cheating going on that EVERYTHING parliament (any parliament) does now is suspect, in my book at least.

MMP does make for a "more diverse" parliament. However, it has some MAJOR drawbacks. The most obvious one being that we have to pay (hugely I might add, megabucks in fact) for 120 parasites, many of whom "vote along party lines", i.e. they do not "represent" any electorate and owe loyalty only to the party who APPOINTED them. Imagine that, "appointed to parliament" - smacks of soviet style dictatorship, doesn't it? I mean it is an oxymoron to say that electorate MPs "represent" anyone anyway, all they really do is live in luxury off money that is taken by force from others, and "list MPs" most certainly do that too.

Another drawback for THEIR INTERPRETATION OF MMP is that a candidate who receives a clear message from the public that they are not wanted in parliament, can SLIP IN TO PARLIAMENT "ON THE LIST".

There are lots of examples, one being Christchurch central, there is a "dead heat" in the voting for the national and labour candidates. However, Brendon Burns the Labour candidate is ALSO ON THE LIST and the national candidate Nicky Wagner is not. So she will be out of parliament is the "special votes" go against her whereas BB will not be. If he loses the "specials" all that will mean to him is that he is a LIST MP instead of an electorate MP.

PS I am not saying that either candidate in CHCH central is better than the other, I am just using this as an example.

meh less Nat's the better from my point of view since Clayton got the boot from my seat.

im not entirely sure of the point of this thread
im wavering between " mmp is bad " , and " having your say is actually worthless in the end " ( im leaning toward the latter )

and , indeed , only the young or foolish would be so naive as to believe that the act of voting is of any merit , or that it is the way to enact change
although children may believe that those in government must be forced to listen to the majority , mature adults certainly know better

as for mmp , i personally believe , that although it may not be the best system for us , it has been a good start , for the simplest of reasons --- it almost guarantee's a coalition government , with all the things that go along with such governments ( the majority party must in some way appease its minor partners , and at least some of those will be political victory's for that particular party's base , ( while some will , ofc , simply be personal payoffs for the minor party's members )

First: The point of this thread - started BEFORE the election - was originally to remind people that they are being tricked and there is no way there is really going to be/has been a "referendum" on MMP. It is an incredibly expensive farce, one that is being paid for by all of us.

However, I am confused. First you say that it is basically a waste of time "voting" and you cannot expect that your "vote" will count for anything (BTW I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment), then you go on to discuss the merits of the "MMP" system.

In my view it is NOT a "good start", it is ENTIRELY giving sanction to 120 parasitic trough-feeders in parliament, all feeding greedily out of the public trough while sitting in "the house" all with their delusions of grandeur - which translate to living in luxury at our expense - and voting ALONG PARTY LINES ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THEY OWE 100% OF THEIR LOYALTY TO THE PARTY AND NOT TO THE PEOPLE!!!!

After all MMP does = "Many More Parasites".

You also say that "mature adults certainly know better" (with regard to voting). Unfortunately this is NOT the case, if it was then why do so may people continue to naively "vote" thinking they can change anything? Why do silly radio talkback hosts continue to say "you don't vote then you can't complain"? Why do we continue to put up with money being extorted from us to fund a system that is designed to trick us all the time?

Why is this forum necessary?

in regards to my saying voting has no merit , and is not the way to enact change , yet mmp is a good start

voting wont really change things on the large scale
we will still increasingly become more and more capitalistic , with a greater and greater gap between rich and poor , and more and more of " new zealand " will be owned by foreigners
because , the forces at play , are greater than the politicians we elect , and they will bow down to these forces , even tho the majority of new zealanders disagree

however , there are smaller things , that we can actually change ,which may slow the tide
and in this regard , i believe that mmp allows this , as it almost guarantees a coalition , which means concessions being made
this doesnt mean those concessions will always be favourable
but without a coalition , there is almost no scope whatsoever for even this small amount

as for the " mature adults " , i meant it in the most condescending way ( that is , there are almost no mature adults , but rather a population that doesnt question , and when it does , it only asks about the questions already framed by those in power , and never really asks why things are the way they are )

and talkback radio ?
i have rarely heard anything other than the standard rhetoric in major media outlets
its simply not really worth listening imo